Wednesday, December 05, 2007

Noids, Noids, Noids

Coop here, with a rare two posts in less than a week, um, week. I just had to comment on some craziness going on.

Basically, the long and short of it is...I have no real love for the offseason and any trade rumors that accompany it. And I mean, I take with a grain of salt most of the rumors that come around anyway.

But today's rumors...well it took the cake. Not to mention, they were even more outlandish than usual, Billy Beane AND Omar had to come out and basically say - yo, wasn't me.

My peeps over at Metsmerized Online (excellent job covering the winter meetings, y'all) had a pretty active dialogue today, due to these fine words here, which have since pretty much been retracted and laughed at by media, bloggers and fans alike:

"Minnesota has initiated talks for a three-way blockbuster with the Mets and A's. Here's how it would go down:

Mets send Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot to A's.
A's send Bobby Crosby and Dan Johnson to Mets.
A's send Dan Haren to Twins. Twins send Johan Santana to Mets"

WHOA!! HELLO! My first thought was, if we give up Jose Reyes...we better not only get back Haren AND Santana...In addition to Cap Day, they should have Blow Job day instituted as promotional date.

And instead of Take HER Out to the Ballgame tote bag, give us females some battery operated tools (and a pic of Oh Pea with his shirt off). They can be Mets colors.

OK OK, I am getting way too ahead of myself. But you see, this is exactly why I hate not only Hot Stove season and Winter Meetings, it's something I really hate as being a Mets fan.

When Omar Minaya made some moves that seemingly solidified the team in the 2005 going into 2006 offseason, I thought -- what else is he going to do? And when he turned goat piss (Kris Benson) into gasoline (John Maine AND ultimately El Duque), I was hooked. Not to mention, he also walked on water for me when he got Oliver Perez. But that goes without saying (see: above).

I have been predicting something huge. Well, guess what Detroit getting better and Florida becoming de facto AAA team...

Blockbuster is just a video store chain nowadays. And Omar is physically restrained from making landscape changing deals. Why? Basically because they won't ask for Lastings Milledge anymore, but they'll ask for David Wright or Jose Reyes, our two stars.

So now what? Well, suffice to say that even if this Oakland/Minny/Mets three-way were even POSSIBLE or remotely close to ever happening in my lifetime, I might just have to re-reserve my spot on the 59th Street Bridge. Now, Johan is Johan...but Jose is JOSE! JOSE! JOSE! JOSE!!!!! What would we do without those chants?

More importantly...what would we do without him???

Save his slump and sulking in the last half, he is the sparkplug, the catalyst. David Wright is consistent, but Jose when he's on, he's not only on, he makes the team a lot better.

I don't care if G*d herself was pitching as a result of Jose being traded, NO WAY DO YOU EVER PULL THE TRIGGER ON A DEAL LIKE THAT OMAR!!!!! YOU HEAR ME!!!!!!

(Well, if you didn't, I'm sure most of the tri-state area has. )

I have an embryonic article in my head that will probably end up on F.U. soon about the next topic...But I dare say, pitching won championships 10-15 years ago. Who out there is an ace these days? Santana, Peavy, Webb? Everyone else are strong #2s and #3s. And if we really want to wax intellectual...we had two aces this year! In John Maine and Oh Pea.

So Johan? We don't need now stinkin' Johan! And besides...whoever gets him or if he is even traded this winter...will be screwed for mortgaging the farm. Because we all know, he's walkin' in 2008 to get his sweet moolah.

In closing, visit my family away from My Summer Family, Flushing University for my weekly article: Mets, Inc (the "inc" stands for "incompetence").

And yes, I'm still pissed about Lastings Milledge. DEAL WITH IT!!!


Khalid said...

Wow. Don't know where to begin. I won't start with the ridiculous "pitching won championships 10-12 years ago" comment. Too patently ridiculous to refute right away, but we'll get back to that in a sec.

I love Reyes, but if Santana and something better than the alleged pu-pu platter of Johnson and Crosby was comin back our way, I'd do it in a second. I don't think that any Mets fans are paying attention to just how good the player we'd be getting back is. Johan is so much better at his position than anyone else, its laughable. His numbers would be even more insane if he played in the lite hitting NL.

Ok, on to that insane pitching 'used to win championships' stuff. Come on Coop, you're supposed to be better than that. I'm supposed to think that you watch the World Series every year and you don't just shut it down once the Mets get knocked out. We don't have to go back too far to see how crazy that statement is. Two recent examples:

2005. The White Sox starting pitchers carried them to the title with the greatest playoff performance by a starting pitching staff in recent memory, starting with their dominant sweep of the Red Sox in the LDS. Then, they had their starting pitchers pitch FOUR straight complete games in the ALCS against the Angels. Also, if you recall, the Astros didn't score any runs during the last FIFTEEN innings of the World Series. Not a typo. Read that again. 15 scoreless innings to close out a World Series victory. I'm not even gonna mention their dominant closer Bobby Jenks.

2007. Josh Beckett, Jonathan Papelbon and Okajima. Yes, Manny stood on his head all playoffs long, but the Sox don't beat Cleveland and Colorado without those dominant pitchers. Beckett was the ALCS MVP going away and many felt the Papelbon had a legit argument for World Series MVP (he saved two one run games and had 3 Saves in the series). Schilling also gave them quality start after quality start in the playoffs, cementing his Boston legend status.

I think its pretty obvious that pitching still wins championships, especially dominant starting pitching. Thats why its always in such short supply, but in such high demand. Thats why Omar couldn't pry away anyone's ace at the deadline last year. Coop, I think this Lastings stuff has pushed you way over the top. Maybe you should take a few plays off there champ :)

Coop said...

You bring up some interesting points my friend. My point was pitching is not the be-all, end-all it once was. You bring up 2005 and 2007, but what about 2006? the mets threw out the likes of Jeremi Gonzalez, Alay Soler, Jose Lima Time!, and a young upstart named John Maine every 5th day, and STILL ran away with the division. Hardly sexy names on the mound...AND the "ace" (use that term loosely) was a dude who couldn't hold a 7 run lead in the 5th inning. Now look who won games in the NLCS in 2006...Jeff Suppan. Weaver. Guys who were slaughtered in the regular season and rose to the occasion when the time warranted.

Pitching may have won THEN...but how much of it was offense going to sleep too?

Johan, Peavy and Webb are probably the best pitchers of their generation -- yet, what championships do they have recently? Johan's team floundered and Peavy's team fell apart against a lesser team (that made it all the way to the World Series). Now, Webb's team made the playoffs but they flustered in the NLCS too against a team with not such an impressive pitching staff.

Now I know I was sweating Josh Beckett in the playoffs this year...but you cannot deny the impact that run support gives these fellas. Even in Johan's case in 2006, when his team scored a big fat goose egg against Barry Zito in Minnesota, when he held the A's to one run (maybe two? my memory is failing me right now)

I'm just saying, you trade a franchise player away like Jose reyes...someone we have not had since the days of Seaver...even with David Wright anchoring the team, it will haunt them for life...even for the best pitcher of his generation.

Pitching aint what it used to be. Starters don't throw more than 100 pitches, the bullpen is more prevalent, there are hardly any complete games can't tell me pitching is as important as it was 10-15 years. It's not!

Khalid said...

Hmmm, 2006 is an interesting case study. The Mets ran away with a pretty bad division with a mediocre pitching staff and the best lineup in baseball, but I feel like that happened because the other teams in our division had........even worse pitching than we did. Take a look at the Braves and Philies starters' era that year. Woeful. The marlins were a bunch of youngsters, who pitched big in the second half, but sucked in the 1st.

Certainly you're right that the game has changed and there's more emphasis on the bullpen, but referencing the failures of Peavy, Webb and Johan's teams doesn't hold water. Here's why: all three pitch for small market teams and therefore are basically one man shows. Its not their fault that their owners don't spend money on decent #2 and #3 starters or power hitters. Its actually a shame that these 3 dominant starters have been marooned on teams that can't consistently score runs. Put any of those guys on the 2006 Mets (and maybe 2007 Mets) and guess who's probably rocking a ring right now. Pitching certainly isn't what it was 10-15 years ago, but it still wins championships.

If we can get Johan and a promising hitter for Reyes and Pelfrey, I say it should be a go. But thats just me in the vast minority, so you've got nothin to worry about. Reyes is goin nowhere.